Author Topic: Rain Water Catchment System / Rain Barrels / Rainwater Harvesting  (Read 9903 times)

Offline Brian Gallimore

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Using rainwater is generally preferable over tap water, post up your ideas and comments here.

I just saw this on the NTVG facebook group:
http://www.lid-stormwater.net/raincist_specs.htm
briangallimore.com  -Permaculture Nut-  -Master Gardener-  -Master Naturalist-  Princeton Texas

Offline Brian Gallimore

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Re: Rain Water Catchment System / Rain Barrels / Rainwater Harvesting
« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2015, 11:25:50 PM »
from https://www.facebook.com/groups/NorthTexasVegetableGardeners/permalink/10153883103344852/

Quote
Michael Come
Water is key to life. Right now everybody is excited our lakes are full. As if we're experience some sort of relief from a drought. We've never experienced a drought people. We've always experienced rain in the spring and fall. We actually have a fairly predictable average. Right now our lakes are full because our land doesn't absorb the rain water and we don't capture it on our property. Instead 30% will be lost to ET and we'll be paying somebody to pump it back to our properties where it is actually needed. Our water cycle is very broken and it's hurting our ecology. I guarantee in a few months we'll be talking about this imaginary drought we've been in, complaining about the rain. In reality, we've never had a water shortage. Just a shortage of intelligence that results in water management problems. People need to wake up.
Actions you can take:
1. Core aerate your entire property
2. Install large cisterns to capture rainwater runoff. Use a calculator to determine how many gallons you can catch off your roof with your yearly average and make sure you can store that plus an extra 20%.
3. Have more than an urban lot? Find a keyline design consultant or read the books "The Challenge With Landscape" & "Water For Every Farm"
link1-http://www.soilandhealth.org/01aglibrary/010126yeomansii/010126toc.html
link2-https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&ei=NuU8VfXTFoHHsAXW84DgBQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Flibrary.uniteddiversity.coop%2FWater_and_Sanitation%2FRainwater_Harvesting_for_Drylands_and_Beyond_Volume_1.pdf&ved=0CB8QFjAB&usg=AFQjCNGjpyweQVhnYS3ZqGho5IhqK8aGBw&sig2=J0Ex4S16EEjPHPhoHxg44Q
link3-https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&ei=NuU8VfXTFoHHsAXW84DgBQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Flibrary.uniteddiversity.coop%2FWater_and_Sanitation%2FRainwater_Harvesting_for_Drylands_and_Beyond_Volume_2.pdf&ved=0CCEQFjAC&usg=AFQjCNGs-1Fq-IDRAb6ysMBOS23CW5mt5Q&sig2=wEp7c3cNJOfGxooxqTlZbQ
4. Ditch ineffective and destructive agricultural practices such as set stock grazing and spray & till farming. Instead learn and implement Holistically Managed Planned grazing and no till or minimum cultivation.
5. Leave no bare ground exposed
6. Shade your stock tanks to slow evaporative transpiration.
7. Come to the understanding that the government is lacking of the understanding on how to solve our problems and seek alternative sources of information but do not leave government supplied funds in the table. That money belongs to we the people.

Carol Garrison This area used to be blackland prairie...prairies are nature's natural filtration and water absorption designs, and we have ruined them. I have learned so much in the Master Naturalist program regarding this issue. Run-off was never a problem for Texas until the human beings invented concreted, scraped the natural topography of the land, and then covered what little land was left with non-native grasses with miserably short roots that do to aerate the soil and give the land somewhere to store water. Now we have run-off which leads to the "drought" everyone gripes about.

Michael Come Carol Garrison, if only that were more than a partial truth. Unfortunately most of the naturalist program is informed by recalcitrant universities, in particular, land grant universities. So here is the rub. Our rangelands that exist today with no concrete are still experiencing run off and desertification. The government and universities would say because it needs more rest from large animal pressure and they'll increase harvest numbers. The land will start degrading further. Truth is, it's experiencing that desertification because we've removed those animals. The large herds of bison that used to be chased across the prairie are missing. They were mother nature's aeration, fertilization and lawn mower.
http://www.ted.com/talks/allan_savory_how_to_green_the_world_s_deserts_and_reverse_climate_change?language=en
How to fight desertification and reverse climate change
“Desertification is a fancy word for land that is turning...
TED.COM|BY ALLAN SAVORY

Carol Garrison That is exactly what we learned-we actually studied the difference in hoof patterns between bison and cattle. Cows ruined the Texas prairie almost as much as people! The bison have a hoof that actually aerates the soil unlike a cow that mostly seems to be a walking soil compactor and methane machine! The nomadic nature of the bison allowed the prairie to have a natural sustainable cycle of growth; the cattle stayed in one place and decimated the areas that were once fertile areas covered in native vegetation. Our class is taught by a variety of professionals-not staff from a recalcitrant university. Of course, brining back bison is not going to occur (without getting rid of a bunch of Texans!)

John Palmer Michael Come, I agree with you on everyone need to do things to conserve water.
But I would really like to know your highly intelligent definition of what a drought is.
Especially since you basically just called EVERYONE that THOUGHT we were in a drought of being Short of INTELLIGENCE And also I would like to know who you are referring to when you said " we have never experienced a drought people".
SO please tell us all " SO WE CAN WAKE UP".

Scott Riemenschneider Ive been following Jack Spirko's swale project. He's in Azle area.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=K1gnKXqR0XA
Swales
YOUTUBE.COM

John Palmer I guess all this was fake as well.


Ben Tyler Texas EcoLogix and Frasier Bison are bringing back the buffalo with the people....

Kobin Caddick Great mind blowing Ted talk.

Lauren Holt I'm not sure which lake you're looking at but ours is not anywhere near full or even close

Kent Hervey Carol,
If 200 years ago there was no runoff, then were there any rivers?

Bobby Turrentine  We have beautiful mountain valleys because glaciers melted. Yet we don't want any more glaciers to melt. The Grand Canyon must have formed by a huge vacuum or dust devil that evenly spread the soil and rock across the planet. Must have been easy crossing the Mississippi Ditch 200 years ago. The arrogance of mankind is that we are in control of this planet and how things turn out. Humans have done things to aid in the outcome, but we can't stop the earth from spinning or evolving.

Rena Hobbs Permaculture is the thought process you describe here. And Jack is awesome


Michael Come drought
[drout]
noun
1. a period of dry weather, especially a long one that is injurious to crops.

Michael Come John Palmer, those trees were indeed killed from a lack of water, but not because less had been falling from the sky. It's because we've taken large animals off the prairies and out of the creek bottoms and forested margins. It's simple math. Check your zip codes rainfall totals for the last 20 years.

Ben Tyler Once keyline catches on, everyone in Texas is gonna do a colossal facepalm and say "why didn't we do that all along?" XD

Michael Come Carol Garrison, they're still not getting it. Watch the video. We can 100% heal the land with cattle. They're comparing a domesticated animal with very little predator pressure to that of the work of a once wild animal. If you run a herd of cows through an area, you better believe the ground will be aerated. It's not a myth, it's being done all over the world, including right here. I've attended and read their curriculum. They are indeed way off the mark when it comes to what we need to heal this land.

Michael Come Less than 15" of rain a year. No wells.


Michael Come Keyline design.



Michael Come Cows holistically managed on the left. No animals on the right.


Kristi McWright I think it would be difficult to recapture the natural climax state of our prairies without allowing burning along with grazing. Also, I would add that although we're hopefully not in a long 50 year + drought like this area experienced several hundred years ago, we are in a drought following the usual pattern of about every 30 years or so. I live in Jack County and our 10 year average is around 28 inches, but our 50 year average is more like 32. Also, 2005 was exceptionally dry over the entire region, I know that we received about 13.5 inches that year

Michael Come Not a drought


James Stewart Drought does not mean no rain. It means prolonged periods below normal average.

Brian Gallimore Michael Come, can you clarify what you mean by this "They are indeed way off the mark when it comes to what we need to heal this land" I'm not following who the 'they' are.

Michael Come Brian, Master Naturalist program.

John Palmer {{edited}}   but to say we have not been in a drought is absolutely NOT RIGHT.
 {{edited}}

Michael Come James, then by that definition we're definitely not in a drought.

Michael Come {{edit}}  I've seen places that get less than 10" of rain a year grow an abundance of produce.  {{edit}}

Michael Come 1500 sq ft roof catches 16830 gallons of water during a 20" rain year. A 30,000 sq ft vegetable garden, inefficiently planned / located with bare ground and sandy soil needs 13250 gallons of water in a year.

John Palmer Mike {{edit}} You are the one who basically said {{edit}} we were all imaging we were in a drought. .
And that is just not true. {{edit}}

Michael Come John Palmer, I own no cattle yet. We aim to be running bison by the fall in a will planned grazing system, along with dairy goats and free range chickens. I've planned grazing for multiple herds now however and have witnessed properly planned grazing restore desertified grassland in this "drought".

I posted rain totals that are not opinion but fact, recorded not by me but by scientists, that clearly demonstrate DFW has not experienced a sustained drought, but ever since we've moved here, people talk about a drought. Hell, I heard an Ag Extension agent talk about the drought during a year we got 40"+ of rain. As for telling farmers to their face that their management choices has lost them tons of money, that happens about once every two weeks. Hell, they pay me to. {{edit}}

Now, in my original post, I made a general statement {{edit}} So you're saying, as a society, state, country we have a sound understanding of how to manage the water we have well? If that's true, and we live in this perpetually drought prone area, then why does everything about our civil design / codes and current status drive us to run water off our properties? Why do we have gardens that are completely bare ground? Why don't we aerate our properties? Why do 90+% of properties I visit do nothing to keep the rain that falls on property? Why? I can tell you why, because in general, we have no idea how to manage water. What does having no idea mean? Well it means we generally lack intelligence in the subject matter. Also, university scientists having a general consensus of something being true does not make it true! {{edit}}

John Palmer Well Mike, you can say what you want, {{edit}} say the universities are wrong, and whatever else you want to.
But like I did say , you do not know me or anything about the way I conserve water, and still do not appreciate being said I have a shortage of intelligence.
This is a conversation that will never end , not just between you and I . But everyone, we all could look up stats. And come up with different answers.
My whole point was , I BELIVE we were and still in a drought if you don't that is your opinion , and The main thing is I don't want to be called short of intelligence by someone who does not know anything about me what so ever.
Good luck with your future live stock venture.

Michael Come Sure thing and to you as well.

Victor H. Garza One of the best water harvesting guides I ever seen. 192 pages of pure brilliance. Thank you for sharing.



« Last Edit: April 27, 2015, 12:08:08 AM by Brian Gallimore »
briangallimore.com  -Permaculture Nut-  -Master Gardener-  -Master Naturalist-  Princeton Texas